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A History of Peter Stay's Ancestors Part 1



Section 3


Peter Stay's Ancestors


March 10, 2009



Chapters
1 Peter's Parents, Richard & Ann Aldridge
2 Peter's Grandparents, Richard and Hannah
3 Great Grandparents Richard and Elizabeth
4 Great Great Grandfather Richard the Elder
5 Richard the Elder Hordle Parish Period
6 Richard the Elder's Parents - Brockenhurst
7 Hordle Parish Boundaries
8 Geography Stay/Stoy Family in England
9 Background Information – Manor of Hordle
10 The Vaggs Lane Lease – A Link to the Past
11 Rentrol of Vaggs Property dated 1778
12 Trip to Hampshire 2002 by Gary Stay, Thoughts
13 Visit to Vaggs Lane site
14 Information about Sir Robert Smyth
15 Historical Perspective – Roots to New Forest
16 A Family History of Dissenters
17 The Recusants in Brockenhurst & Hordle
18 Catholics in Southwest Hampshire
19 Brockenhurst St. Nicholas Church
20 A Study of the Swainmote Court



Peter's Parentage And Background





Chapter 1
Peter's Parents





Richard and Ann Aldridge

A Hordle parish entry of the banns of Richard Stay to Ann Aldridge on the 2, 13, 23rd of October 1774 and an entry in the Milford Parish register recording their marriage on the next day the 24th. –

24 Oct. 1774 Richard Stay married Ann Aldredge at Milford. Richard of Hordle, Ann of Milford, by me, Bolton Simpson

We declare this union to be the marriage of Peter's parents.

Richard and Ann's burials in Hordle are recorded as follows:

Richard Stay age 80 buried 4 July 1828
Ann Stay age 72 buried 20 July 1820

The above age at time of death would confirm Richard and Ann's birth to be about 1748. The parish records for Hordle provide the following:

Richard Stay son of Richard and Hannah Hampton born 1748.

This entry provides the parents of Richard, father of Peter Stay and his father and mother, Richard and Hannah Hampton.

Richard & Ann's children (Hordle and Milford Parish Registers):

Sarah Stay, Chr. 8 Jan 1777, Hordle, Hampshire, father Richard
Peter Stay, Chr. 2 May 1779, of Hordle, Hampshire, son of Richard at Milford
Richard Stay Chr. 27 May 1781, of Hordle, Hampshire, son of Richard
*Bettey Stay Chr. 15th April 1785, at Hordle, Hampshire, Daughter of Richard
*Thomas Stay Chr. 18 Sep 1785 at Hordle, Hampshire, son of Richard and Ann
John Stay Chr. 1 Jul 1787 at Hordle, Hampshire, son of Richard and Ann

** We think it is possible that Bettey and Thomas may be twins but christened at different dates. Perhaps Thomas was sick or a premature child and unable to be christened the same time as Bettey, we have a burial for Thomas as 15 Nov 1885 son of Richard and Ann.

These births (based upon death dates) would correspond to the couple having children at the time of Peter's birth, which would have Ann giving birth to Peter at age 31 years. There may be other children of this union not recorded in the Parish Registers.

Ann's birth and parents.

Based upon Ann's burial date, Ann Stay age 72 buried 20 July 1820, her birth would have been about the same year as Richard's birth of 1748 in Milford. We have extracted all Aldridge names for both Milford and Hordle and have not found Ann's birth. However, we have two Aldridge families having children during the 1748 period. Either of these two families could be Anns.

1. Thomas and Jane Aldridge of Milford - Thomas was the son of Thomas died 1760 and Jane listed as died in 1762

Children:
1739 Sarah Aldridge
1741 Jan 31 Elizabeth Aldridge
1744 Mar 10 Thomas Aldridge
1748 possible Ann's birth*
1749 Feb 10 William Aldridge
*Gap in births

2. Richard Aldridge and Susanna Brooks married Oct 19 1740 at Milford Richard died Oct 2 1763

Children:
1745 Mar 23 Mathew Aldridge
1747 Betty Aldridge
1748 poss birth of Ann this period*
1750 Dec 26 Mary Aldridge
1754 Dec 28 Judeth Aldridge
*Gap in births

Based upon the dates of Children born to Richard, he is possibly the father of Ann.

The mother Susanna Brooks would also be known as Anna and would further be evidence corroborating that this could be the family. The evidence is not conclusive and should not be used.

It appears that 18 months after Ann's death, Richard who was quite elderly, remarried Elizabeth Mosdash. This is attested to the fact that Peter and a Susan Stay witnessed the wedding. i.e. "2 Dec 1821, Richard Stay Widower and Elizabeth Mosdash, Spinster both of Milford in the presence of Peter Stay and Susan Stay”. The witness entry confirms Richard as Peter's father.



Chapter 2
Peter's Grandparents





Richard and Hannah Hampton

From the death dates of Peter's parents, Richard Stay age 80 and Ann Stay age 72, their birthplace and year of birth would be in and about Hordle in 1748. Peter's grandparents would be Richard Stay and Hannah Hampton, married two years prior to the birth of Peter's father.

1746, 5 May - Richard Stay and Hannah Hampton married at Milford, both of Hordle.

If we assume Richard and Hannah to be about 25 years old at the time of marriage, it would put Hannah's birth at about 1721. The Hordle Parish records do not cover these dates. Marriages start in 1754; Baptisms start in 1772; and burials beginning in year 1773. The first Hordle Stay entry is a William Stay; buried in 1772. The Milford Parish records document births and marriages for the Hordle Parish.

We have Hannah's birth based upon the following Milford Parish entry:

Susanna Hampton Christened on Sept. 22 1721 at Milford.

The names of Susanna and Hannah are often substituted for one another. The father was Thomas Hampton of Hordle. Incidentally, Thomas was the clerk for the parish; his name is found frequently associated as a witness to marriages within the parish.

Hannah's death is recorded at Hordle 15 Dec. 1778

The Milford register starts much earlier with the first Stay being recorded in 1724. Prior to this date no Stay appears in the Parish Register. We do however have evidence that the Stay family began residing in the Milford, Hordle area prior to this time. The lease of 1702 and the christening of Richard and Joane who resided in the Hordle Parish in 1675 and 1676 (but christened in Boldre), demonstrates that the Stoy family resided in the Hordle Parish prior to the 1724 death date in the Milford register.



Chapter 3
Peter's Great Grandparents






Richard Stay and Elizabeth Holley

On the Rentrol document we note that Richard Stoy the younger held the lease on the Vaggs Lane property for 55 lives. (55 years) This would be Peter's great grandfather Richard the younger. With the lease of land in 1702 on the South end of Vaggs Lane, we postulate that Richard Stay the younger of Arnewood, husbandman, is the father of Peter's grandfather, Richard, who married Hanna Hampton, born about 1721. The lease indicates that Richard's wife-to-be at the time of the lease was Elizabeth Holley, daughter of Samuel Holley of Arnewood. (Note: Arnewood is a tithing on the north end of the parish of Hordle).

When we consider that Richard Stoy the younger held the lease for 55 years, and we assume that he was about 27 years old at the signing, then he would have lived to approximately 82 years.

We have labeled this Richard Stay to be the "younger” (see section about the lease on Vaggs Lane, and the Rentrol regarding the property for additional details).



Chapter 4
Peter's Great Great Grandfather





Richard Stoy the Elder

The record of the lease, (see Vaggs Lane Lease ) indicates that Richard Stay the younger's father was "Richard Stay the elder of Arnewood, deceased”.

We have recently (Nov. 2008), found an "Inventory of Richard Stoy of Brockenhurst, Hampshire, Husbandman dated 1692” ( HRO 1692AD/42) This inventory is related to his death 10 years prior to the lease that references "Richard Stoy the Elder deceased”. The Inventory was compiled by two appraisers for a total estate of 37.15 pounds. It lists items to be distributed to Jr. (Junior, and a Grandson but does not list the names). The inventory listed his death date as 14 February 1692 (note, only two listed in the Inventory).

Richard Stoy of Brockenhurst and Brookley. In the Hampshire Record Series Volume V "A Calendar of New Forest Documents” The fifteenth to Seventeenth Centuries, a Richard Stoy was located. He is referenced in the Calendar of New Forest dated 14 September, being fifteen days before Michaelmas, in the year 1660 and four other dates to 1669.

This is known as the Roll of Swainmote Court in which Richard Stoy served four years as a juror. He is also listed twice as a being a plaintiff, fined for allowing ten sheep to graze upon the forest land along with a number of others individuals at that time. The location of the occurrence was at Setley. Setley is just south of Brockenhurst about ¾ of a mile.

Setley is about 2 miles north from Vaggs Lane (See Study about the Swainmote Court).

We postulate that Richard the Elder is one and the same as the person listed in the Swainmote court records. This record places Richard Stoy in Brockenhurst and Setley prior to his residence at Arnewood in the Hordle Parish



Chapter 5
Richard Stoy the Elder - Hordle Parish Period





In 1675, we place Richard Stoy the Elder living within the Parish of Hordle in the Tithing of Arnewood based upon two significant Boldre Parish entries:

Richard, son of Richard Stoy of Hordle, christened July 22 1675. (Birth of Richard the younger)

The second – Joane daughter of Richard Stoy of Arnewood christened Nov. 2, 1676 (Richard's Sister).

Base upon these two Boldre Parish entries, Richard Stoy (the elder) relocated to Arnewood, in the Parish of Hordle prior to the birth of Richard (the younger) his son, and Joane his daughter.

Arnewood is one of the two tithings within the parish of Hordle. It is located in the northern half of the parish and is only 2 ½ miles south southwest of Setley. The Vaggs Lane property is listed as being part of Arnewood Manor (Within the Arnewood Tithing).

The above two entries in the Boldre Parish Register tie Richard Stoy, the juror and yeoman at Setley to the Richard Stoy the Elder referred to in the Vaggs Lane lease. Evidence strongly suggests that Richard the Elder (from the lease) and Richard the juror are one and the same.

It should also be noted that virtually no Stoy names appear after 1688 in the Brockenhurst Parish Register. We postulate that the family moved from Brockenhurst to Setley and then to Arnewood at the Vaggs Lane cottage.



Chapter 6
Richard Stoy the Elder's parents





A marriage between Richard Stoy and Catherine Butlor dated 22 Oct. 1641, was found in the Brockenhurst St. Nicholas Parish Register. No additional references show a Richard Stoy until the 1660 New Forest Court listing of Richard as a Juror in the Court. This marriage would date a probable child to this union. We have shown that the Stoy's of Brockenhurst were Catholic. Often parish records during this period did not record children born outside the Anglican Church.

We also note: Katherine wife of Richard Stoy was buried Jan 5, 1679; this would likely be Catherine, Richard the elder's mother.

Our logic is as follows: A son Richard born 1 to 2 years after the marriage of Richard and Catherine in 1641. He would have been about 18/19 years old when he first served as a juror in 1660. He would have been about 22-23 years old when recorded in 1663 at Setley. He would have been 27-28 years old when last served as a juror in 1669. He would have been about 33 yrs old when Richard the Younger and his sister June were born on 1675 and 1676 in the Hordle Parish. Catherine his wife or mother died when he was 37 years old. He would have been 50 yrs old when the Inventory (will) was made at time of his death in 1692.

Therefore, we declare Richard Stoy and Catherine Butlor both of Brockenhurst, to be the parents of Richard Stoy the Elder.

Another memo from Harry Stay:

"Visited Hampshire record office 2/9/99 to check Brockenhurst Parish records re AStoys@ living there in those days:

1641 ARichard Stoy married Catherine Butlor August 4th.
1641 William Stoy was married to Margaret Hawkins, May 9th
1645 William Stoy was buried April 4th
1670 Mary, daughter of John Stoy was buried, recorded at Boldre
1672 Catherine daughter of John Stoy was buried, recorded at Boldre
1674 Death of Jane Stoy d of John Stoy, recorded at Boldre
1679 Katherine, wife of Richard Stoy was buried Jan 5th*

I couldnt find any more Stoys as I carried on looking up to 1865. There was some inter-marrying noted between the villages of Brockenhurst, Boldre and Hordle but not involving Stays or Stoys - they are about 5 miles apart.” These entries were verified by reviewing the actual register of St. Nicholas Church on microfisch at the Salt Lake Family History Library #1,041,228 and 6343382 ½ .

Note from Harry Stay 2/4/2000

- I went up to the County record office again last month to see if I could advance the ABrockenhurst A Stoy's project, but information was hard to come by and many records unreadable, however I did find the Baptism of Catherine, daughter of John Stoy in Boldre on 19 May 1672 (John Stay of Brockenhurst). Presumably, she is the same Catherine as is listed in my original information ASeptember 1683 Catherine, daughter of John Stoy@ i.e. she was 11 years old when she died.

-I found a Thomas Stay living in Fawley in 1665.

I thought you might appreciate the main subject of the Family History Magazine - Virtually anyone who failed to attend the Church of England was a Arecusant@ (Harry's note).

Catherine, wife of John Stoy of Brockenhurst was in fact a "Popish Recusant” based upon the list of "Convicted Popish Recusants” found in the House of Lords repository by Gary Stay.

The notation from Betty Peters that one – John Stoy was listed in 1682/1683 as having "difficulties with the calendar change made problems”. (Note, Betty Peters was a friend of Joan Stay, Harry's wife. She was a specialist on the Catholic recusants of Hampshire)

In reference to the calendar change we note the following reference from Will Durants "A history of Civilization Volume 9” p 540. "During Bradley's tenure as astronomer royal, Britain submitted to a painful operation after 170 years of resistance it accepted the Gregorian calendar, but obstinately named it the Reformed calendar. An act of Parliament (1750) ordered that the eleven days following the second of September 1752, were to be omitted from the "New Style”; that begin not on March 25 but on January 1. This involved complications in business dealings and ecclesiastical holydays: it stirred many protests, and angry Britons demanded, "Give us back our eleven days” - - but in the end science triumphed over bookkeeping and theology.” From this account, arguments over the calendar must have been a major issue during the 1680s some 70 years prior to the act of Parliament.



Chapter 7
Hordle Parish Boundaries





Because the boundary of the Hordle Parish changed over the decades, we have compiled a description of the parish boundaries. This is important in order to determine the geography of the family.

I found an Ordinance Survey map dated 1799 that showed the parish boundaries. The Ordinance Survey maps were based upon information from the tithing maps of the local parishes that included descriptions of fields and landmarks. The 1799 map was the first official government map done for the area. The boundaries I traced are shown as follows: (i.e. Gary's boundaries)

Harry Stay unrolling map

Harry Stay unrolling a 1842 very large map of the Hordle Parish. We located the Vaggs Lane property under the name of Richard Stay and another farm nearby with William Stay's name affixed. Map is located in the Hampshire Record Office, Winchester, earlier parish maps existed, but are no longer available.

Hordle Parish Boundries 1799

"Starting at a point on the coast about ½ mile east south east of Barton, the line runs north north east to the Milford Road. It then jogs about 200 feet or so to Angel Road. It continues in a curve to Danes Stream just below Ashley Clinton.

The line then follows Danes Stream in a north westerly route to Sway Road. Thence, East along Sway Road to Avon Water (river) at Madend.

Thence, south easterly along the Avon Water to about 1/10th a mile below Gordleton Mill or Silver Street (old Roman Road). Then south westerly jogs just to the east of Arnewood House.

It then continues south westerly to Stopples Lane, then south aprox. ¼ mile to a north south Road (no name), then south again through the Blackbush Copse to a north fork of Danes Stream. Then south to the main stream following it into Milford to about Oak Tree street, then south to the coast at Rook Cliff.

The line then follows the coast westerly back to the starting point.”

I also contacted the present Hordle church for the current parish boundaries and was provided the following description that is smaller in area than the one I located.

Current description:

Subj: Re: Parish information
Date: 1/16/2000
From: Canon M.G. Anderson@ukgateway.net (Michael Anderson)

Dear Gary, many thanks for your email and the interest in our parish. The old records and tithe maps are all with the Hampshire County Records Office, the Castle, Winchester..

The current parish boundary would read, "Starting ... Ashley Clinton,” 1st para correct. 2nd para: "The line then follows the Dane Stream north to the forest edge at Wootton" "Thence in an easterly direction along the forest edge to Avon Water, then along the water south ... Gordleton ... east of Arnewood House ... to meet Downton Lane at Shorefield Road. Thence directly south to include Hordle Manor Farm and the Old Churchyard, through the western entrance of Hordle House school and thence to the coast".

The outline of the current parish is therefore "egg-timer" in shape, with about a mile of coastline in the south, bounded by the Dane stream to the west and Avon water to the east, with a mile of forest edge to the north.

I trust this helps! With all good wishes, Michael.


It should be noted that sources state that at one time Hurst Castle was included in the Parish of Hordle. This is strange, in that Milford and the Milford Parish is directly north on one side of Danes Stream which is the parish boundary with the Hordle parish extending in a narrow band between Danes Stream and the Sea. This connection may well revert back to the ownership of estates at Keyhaven and Hordle by the Carye family. It has also been recorded that the coast around Hordle has eroded better than one mile including the loss of "The Village of Hordle”.



Chapter 8
Geography Stay/Stoy/Stoye Family





A Map



Chapter 9
Background information regarding the Manor of Hordle





Information from the "Rentrol” brings up several very interesting items. "The Manor of Hordle” and a "Lord of the Manor” I have never found a "Manor of Hordle” as such! (Did find Hordle Breamore Manor). On one of the maps on the southern end of the parish next to the sea is "The Manor Farm” and a "Hordle House”, which is adjacent or near the Old Hordle Church (Torn down, only the old foundation exists), is a later building, that is now the boys school. The 1800 Ordinance Survey map shows a plot and perhaps a building where the farm is now situated, and about a hundred yards down the road to Milford are a cluster of structures, one with a cross.(The old parish church) The map labels this cluster as Hordwell, which is the early name for Hordle. Is this first location the Manor farm and a village, if so, what is the history? The list of (Rentrol) Rentals for 1710 indicates that the Manor of Hordle has leases or rentals of land from 8 Freeholders, 11 Leaseholders, and about 21 Copyholders. This record would indicate that the Manor of Hordle had a rather large listing of land in the area. According to the Rentrol listings, a substantial sum would have been generated to the Lord of the Manor. The Rentrol also states, "Let the Ballast – at Hurst for 40.8 P ann.” which would indicate that the Lord had control of the spit to the Hurst castle and perhaps used the gravel or stones for ballast on ships in the area.

Sign at Old Parish Church
Sign located at the Old Parish Church site

"The Bournemouth Coast Path by Leigh Hatts” lists a reference to Hordle House: "HORDLE HOUSE, The Doomsday Book records six salt pans and a mill here. "The cross marks the site of the old Norman church built about 1104 and dismantled in 1829 (see sign above) when the population had moved nearly 2 miles inland away from the sea” - - - - "Inside, an embroidered WI banner depicts the first church of which only the outline remains. Among the tombs left behind, are thought to be those of Sir Reginald de Clerk who died in the Wars of the Roses and Christopher Clark who died in 1720 aged 112.” - - - - "The 18th-century Hordle House was the home of Lord Justice Thesiger who died suddenly in 1880 at the early age of 42 as a result of "too much swimming in the sea”. The house has been a school since 1926 - - - -".

In the article about Keyhaven in the Milford-on Sea Record Society, the following reference is made regarding the Hordle House:

"In days before the coast erosion destroyed the strip of land making physical connection between Hurst and Hordle, there existed a road from Hordle to Hurst, which can still be traced in a depression in front of Hordle House running S.E. to the cliff edge. It ran along the front entrance drive to Hordle House, which was originally two houses standing on opposite sides of this road, and it no doubt gave a connection to Keyhaven by a ford through the outlet of Sturt Pond.

The whole Hurst-Hordle foreshore is said to have been in Hordle till the 19th century; and according to Mr. Boys-Smith, the first breach in it was made by a great storm between 1798 and 1801, when the sea first touched Milford at the point not far from Paddy's gap. The strip was probably not very wide; a slattern and some houses appear to have stood on it near Hordle Church. A field path through fields, but no road, then existed along the Milford Cliff.”

Listed under Manors in Hordle Parish is information regarding the manor of Hordle Breamore. The list is as follows: rentals in 1690 – 1694, court book 1692-1703, survey 1700-1800, rental 1710, rentals 1717-1779, court book 1719 –1771, survey book 1748, list of arrears of rent 1765, court book 1778 1801, presentments, 1778 – 1843. These records are in the Hampshire Record Office. They could shed light on the Manor of Hordle Breamore.

Note: One can look at the 1872 Ordinance Survey map at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ look up Hordle. A copy of the first 1799/1800 Ordinance Survey map was found in the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, UT.

The Old Village of Hordwell is shown on the first Ordinance Survey Map of the area dated about 1799.

From this map (below) the old Hordle Church is shown with the X just above the first L. It also shows four or perhaps six other buildings and the Hordle Farm buildings just above the H. Danes stream is shown just above the area with "Royal Oak” above that. …We do not know if the Royal Oak area was thought to be included in the village of Hordwell. All lands to the north of Danes Stream were within the Milford Parish.

Village of Hordle

This clip (above) shows the village of Hordle's relationship to Milford and Keyhaven from the old 1799 map. The old Hordle Parish boundaries followed Danes Stream to the sea below Key Haven and included Hurst Castle which was at the end of the spit Below Key Haven not shown in this map.

At the time of this map the Hordle Parish Church was still located at this site. The distance between the Old Hordle Parish Church and the Milford Parish Church is less than two miles as the crow flies.

With the geographical relationship between the two parish churches, (Hordle & Milford) one can see why there were entries in both parish registers for the residents of this immediate area.

Bolton Simpson DD, Vicar "of Milford and Hordle 1759-86 reported that they held 2 services i.e. "Divine service is performed at Hordle only in the afternoon and at Milford in the morning. Bolton reports also that he resided at the Vicarage at Milford and that there was no house for him at Hordle. Replies to Bishops' Visitations Hampshire County, Council Winchester - 1995 Page 193 (FHL 942.27 B4hr V. 13) this entry shows the interaction between these two parishes. Bolton Simpson performed the marriage of Ann Aldredge of Milton and Richard Stay of Hordle, Peter Stay's parents.



Chapter 10
The Vaggs Lane Lease – A link to the past!





Harry Stay reading lease

Photo of Cousin Harry Stay reading the actual lease in the Hampshire Record Office, Winchester.

Lease Between Sir Robert Smyth and Richard Stay
1702
Introduction

This document is a 300 year old text from the lease of property on Vaggs Lane in the parish of Hordle and the tithing of Arnewood between Sir Richard Smyth and Richard Stoy dated 1702. The document which is about 18 inches by 32 inches, is on parchment and held in the Hampshire Record Office Ref 8M56/86. The text is in old English and is very difficult to read. After much work, we have gotten all but a few words. We may have made some minor mistakes in recording the text into modern English. We have a photocopy of the lease and have recently tied this Richard Stay, his wife to be, Elizabeth Holley, and his Brother William Stay to our line. We have labeled this Richard to be the "younger”. The lease also identified Richard Stay the elder, Richard the younger's father, is Richard Stay from Brockenhurst. The words we cannot interpret are in bold print. We have left some of the words in their old English spelling. The name of Stoy is used throughout the document, however a later Rentrol (Rent-roll) document dated 1778 regarding the property, spells the name as "Stay”. This is further evidence that the Richard Stoy of Brockenhurst is our line.

We acknowledge the work of Lynda Watts of Hampshire, England who provided us with a copy of the original lease from the Hampshire record office.

Photo of the introduction to the 1702 Lease

Intro to 1702 Lease

Text of Lease

THIS INDENTURE made the Nine and Twentieth day of September in this first year of the reign of most gracious Sovereign Lady Anne by the grace of God of England and Scotland France and Ireland Queen Defender of the Faith on Anno Domini 1702 BETWEEN Sir Robert Smyth of Buckland within the parish of Limington and County of Southam (Hampshire) Baronet, and Jane Anne his wife of the one part, and Richard Stoy the younger of Arnewood within the parish of Hordle and County aforesaid Husbandman of the other part. WITNESSETH that they the said Sir Robert Smyth and Jane Anne his wife for and in consideration of the sum of three pounds of good and lawful money of England to them or one of them in hand well and truly paid before the sealing and piere hereof clearly of by this said Richard Stoy. The receipt whereof they do acknowledge and confess and thereof & every part and parcel thereof clearly acquit exoidale and discharge the said Richard Stoy his executors and administrators and assigns and eidy of them for ever by those presents As also for and in consideration of the yearly rent and under the covenants conditions and agreements in these presents mentioned and expressed HAVE devised granted leased and to farm lett And by those presents do devise grant lease and to farm lett unto the said Richard Stoy ALL that their tenement situate and being near the South end of Vaggs Lane in Arnewood aforesaid with an orchard and garden thereunto adjoining containing by estimated forty luggs of ground be it more or less and is bounded with the Common of Arnewood afores'd on the East West and South Parts. And the land late of John Button Esq. deceased now in the possession of Mathias Bungay on the North part. Together with all Commons freedoms liberties privileges rights and appurtenances there unto applying to be taken used and enjoyed in as large and ample manner as other tenants of the same Lordship do for such like tenant All which said premises before devised were lately in the tenure or occupation of Richard Stoy the elder but are now in the tenure use and occupation of the said Richard Stoy pertaining to these presents and are being and lying in Arnewood aforesaid `within the said parish of Hordle and county of Southam TO HAVE AND TO HOLD the said tenement garden and orchard and all and singular the premises before devised unto him the said Richard Stoy the younger his executors and administrators and assignor from the day of the date hereof for and during and unto the full end and term of fourscore and nineteen years from thence next ensuing fully to be complete and ended (if he of the said Richard Stoy the younger Elizabeth Holley Daughter of Samuel Holley of Arnewood) aforesaid Weaver and William Stoy Brother of the said Richard Stoy or any or either of them shall so long happen to live and not otherwise YEILDINGE and paying therefore yearly and every year unto the said Sir Robert Smyth. If the said Jane Anne his Wife during their joint lives and from and after the death of the Sir Robert if the said Jane Anne shall him survive then to the said Jane Anne during her life and from and after the death of the said Jane Anne Then to such persons to whom the reversion of the said premises next after death of the whole continuance of the said term hereby granted one couple of good pullets in and upon the first day of January commonly called New years day AND the said Richard Stoy partly to these presents doth consent promise and agree for himself his executors and administrators and assigns to and with the said Sir Robert Smyth & Jane Anne his wife their heirs and assignors that he the said Richard Stoy his executors and administrators and assignors shall and will duly pay the said couple of pullets every year as before is expressed and agreed upon to be paid and shall and will from time to time and at all times hereafter at his and their own proper costs and charges well and sufficiently repair uphold sustain and maintain hedge with ditch enclose fence and preserve all and singular the said devised premises in all manner of needful and necessary repairs when and as often as need shall require and the same and every part Thereof being so well and sufficiently repaired upholden sustained & maintained hedged, ditched enclosed fenced and preserved shall and will at the determination of this devised lease have and yield up unto the said Sir Robert Smyth and Jane Anne his wife and to such persons as the reversion of the said premises next after the death of the said Jane Anne shall belong their heirs and assigned AND the said Richard Stay the younger for himself his heirs executors and administrators assignees doth by these presents further consent promise and grant to & with the said Sir Robert Smyth and Jane Anne his wife their executors and administrators that in case the said Richard Stoy Elizabeth Holley and William Stoy or any or either of them shall happen to dye during the life of said Jane Anne that then he the said Richard Stoy his executors and administrators and assignees immediately upon the death of such of them as shall so happen to dye at the request cost and charges in the law of the said Sir Robert Smyth or Jane Anne his wife during the life of the said Sir Robert Smyth or the Jane Anne shall and will surrender up this indenture and the estate & term hereby granted and take a new lease of the said premises for the life or lives or for the term of ninety nine years determinable upon the life or lives of such of them the said Richard Stoy Elizabeth Holley and William Stoy as shall be living at the time of such request & the life or lives of one or two persons to be nominated by the said Sir Robert Smyth and Jane Anne his wife so the said premises may be held under the said Sir Robert Smyth and Jane Anne his wife or under the said Jane Anne if she shall survive him for three lives or for the term of ninety nine years determinable on three lives under the like rent and consent as in these presents are contained with said premises with the appurtenances and all the estate term and interest so to be granted in the same from and after the decease of the said Richard Stoy Elizabeth Holley and William Stoy respectively shall be in trust for the said Sir Robert Smyth and Jane Anne his wife their respective executors and administrators and assignor. And in case the said Richard Stoy his executors and administrators and assignees shall make default of surrendering & yielding up this presents lease upon such request as aforesaid lease presents and every grant and convent and agreement on the leasers part herein contained shall be utterly void and of none effect any thing herein contained to the contrary thereof in any wise not withstanding AND the said Sir Robert Smyth for himself and for the said Jane Anne his wife and for their heirs executors and administrators and assignor and for each of them doth by those presents consent promise and grant to and to the said Richard Stoy partly to those presents his executors and administrators and assignees that it shall and may be lawful to and for the said Richard Stoy his executors and administrators and assignees from time to time for and during all the said term herby devise of for and under the yearly rent and performance of the consent and agreements before expressed and peaceably and quietly to have hold use occupy possess and enjoy the said before devised premises by part and parcel thereof with appenrtes without the lawful lett trouble contradiction or denial of the said Sir Robert Smyth and Jane his wife or any person or persons lawfully claiming or by from or under them or either of them in witnesses where of the prior above said have to these persons indentures sett interchangeable their hand and seals the day and (date) first above written.

The mark of
Richard X Stoy

The mark of Richard X Stoy

A few lines from the indenture document of Richard Stoy the Elder
Digital photo showing several lines from the Indenture document showing the name spelled as "Stoy”. It also shows Richard Stoy's father i.e. "Richard Stoy the elder”.

Jeremy Greenwood identified Vaggs Lane in about the center of the Hordle Parish. He was the first to locate a reference to the Lease. Jeremy is a historian who lives in the Hordle parish and contacted me through the Stay Family Web site. He had found a description of the lease in an abbreviated summary as follows:

1702 Lease for 3 lives; Sir Robert Smyth – Buckland, Lymington (Lord of Manor) Richard Stoy, Arnewood, husbandman, Tenement near South End Vaggs Lane with orchard of 40 luggs in Arnewood all which said premises wee in tenure of Ri Stoy elder deceased but are now in use and occupation of said Richard Stoy jnr; for lives of Richard Stoy, Elizabeth Holley, daughter of Samuel, Arnewood, weaver and William Stoy brother of said Richard.

Mark of Richard Stoy

From this brief description, we have deducted the following:

-"for 3 lives” means three generations or 99 years.

-"Sir Robert Smyth (Lord of Manor) we would assume is Lord of Buckland Manor who has holdings as a "freeholder” in the Hordle Parish (see section about Sir Robert Smyth).

-"Richard Stoy, Arnewood, husbandman” We find a number of references to Arnewood. First, it is one of the two tithing's of the Hordle Parish. Arnewood is a family name and we find wills for the family in Arnewood in 1602, 1606 and in Boldre, 1582, 1594, 1572, and in Hordle as early as 1551. A manor called Arnewood Manor and an "Arnewood House”, also called "Great Arnewood” and a "Little Arnewood”, two farms near each other, we also find a large area just West of Tiptoe called "Arnewood Common” (1872 map). However at the same location on the 1799 map, only an "Arnolds” is shown, no Arnewood appears. The 1825/26 map shows a Sway at the north end of Vaggs lane, no Arnewood is listed on this map, but the same two farms are shown with no name listed. Arnewood was a tithing of the parish of Hordle, so the reference to Arnewood may be somewhere within the tithing rather than at the two farms seen on the maps.

-"Husbandman” A farmer, or a person involved in the cultivation of plants.

-"Tenement” indicates that a dwelling was included in the lease along with the orchard.

-"Orchard of 40 luggs” The Oxford Dictionary indicates that a "lug” is a measure of land, containing a pole, perch, or sixteen and one half feet square (1724 usage). Larry Stay did some research on Luggs. "My reading shows 20 luggs equal an eighth of an acre and so that 40 luggs would be one quarter of an acre. Depending on the size of the lugg used (it varied by local custom) there were between 100 and 160 square luggs per acre with the latter being more common. That gives a lugg length of 16.5 feet that was referenced in the lease. Therefore, an acre was 40 lugs by 4 luggs or the equivalent (40 x 16.5 +4 x 16.5) = 43,560 square feet or 160 square luggs. It follows that 40 luggs equals ¼ acre”.

The lease indicates that their tenement (cottage) was situated near the South end of Vaggs Lane in Arnewood aforesaid with an orchard and garden thereunto adjoining containing by estimated forty luggs of ground be it more or less - - -.

The Survey with Sway Quarr. 1798 lists the property as follows:

-"Richard Stay (note spelling, not Stoy as lease) 29 October 1778. All that cottage and garden cont. about half an acre and a piece of ground cont. about an acre in the Manor of Arnewood and in the parish of Hordle”.

-"Orchard” What kind of orchard? We would assume apples, however there could have been other fruit such as pears during this period. We need to see what kinds of orchards are grown in this area today. In our recent visit, we noted an apple orchard located across the street and one down several houses.

-"Elizabeth Holley, daughter of Samuel, Arnewood Weaver” We may assume that Elizabeth was betrothed to Richard and that Samuel was a weaver in a cottage. Seeing that there was no such village known as Arnewood, he could have been from anywhere in the Arnewood area. We have confirmed by a 1778 document found 8M56/282 Survey with Sway Quarr. 1796, that she was noted as "Elizabeth wife of the d.”(deceased).

Vaggs Lane geography. I have referenced three early Ordinance Survey maps of the Hordle area, 1799/80, 1825/26 and 1872:

The first, an Ordinance Survey map circa 1800 or 1799 and shows Vaggs lane running from Silver Street, which is an old Roman road running north-north-west from what was then known as Downton Common, to a location called Sway (this is not the same as what is now known as Sway which is north and east of this location; this Sway location is called "Vaggs” on the 1872 map). The map shows a portion of the Downton Common on the west side of the lane for about two tenths of a mile to a point where a small tributary (branch) of Danes Stream terminates. The map shows six locations (buildings or plots) above this point, four on the West side of the lane and two on the East side. Two of these plots appear to have been an orchard. On this map the lane is just short of one mile in length and terminates on an East/West road.

A map of Vaggs Lane

1800/1799 Ordinance Survey Map Vaggs Lane

This 1799 map, is the first Ordinance Survey map, using a highly sophisticated method of triangulation constructed for the area and is considered quite accurate. This map does not show the enclosures indicated on the 1872 map, which were plots likely of farmland indicated on the tithing map of the parish. The enclosure act may have had something to do with the delineation of farm property between these three maps. This tithe map is located in the Hampshire Record Office. See Notation later in this document.

A second Ordinance Survey map of 1825, shows more buildings along Vaggs lane, 14 in all. These 14 units could be farm houses, squatter's cottages or farm outbuildings.

The 1872 Ordinance Survey map

The third Ordinance Survey map circa 1872 (shown below) shows Vaggs Lane running from Silver Street was then called Darby Lane where Vaggs Lane starts above Hordle. The lane goes the same length (one mile) then makes a slight correction more to the north –north-west for an additional two miles. This jog is known on this map as "Vaggs” where it shows a cluster of buildings, including one on the east side known as Forest Lodge. The map also shows a small plot at the juncture where the tributary of Danes Stream intersects Vaggs Lane.

A second ordinance map of Vaggs Lane

This map does not show an orchard along the 1 mile stretch of Vaggs Lane. However the first Ordinance Survey Map of 1779/1800 does show what appears to be two orchards midway along the one mile stretch of the Lane.

Note: from the tithe map in the Hampshire Record Office, and from the lease description, we have now determined that the property is in fact that listed adjacent to the "124” shown on the South end of Vaggs Lane on the map. We have been to the location and have proven that this is the property where Richard Stoy leased the land.

Arnewood and Swaye are listed as one entry in the Hampshire Lay Subsidy Rolls, 1586. This record would lead us to believe that the Sway shown above on the early map at the North end of Vaggs Lane was included in the Arnewood holdings of land. We also note on later maps, Sway is several miles away and not located at Arnewood.

A link to Part 2


Owner/SourceGary Stay
File nameA History of Peter Stay's Ancestors Part 1
File Size
ID112
Linked toPeter (also Petter) STAY

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