Gary Stay
Hampshire Record Office
visit. (Winchester) Harry Stay and I.
First had a look at the
actual lease of 1702 and took photos.
Looked at Tithe map for
the parish of Hordle.
It is a large role about
8 feet wide and about 15 feet long.
Dated 1844 it is one of
the earliest complete maps of Hordle Parish that we know of. There had to
have been an earlier tith map due to the first Ordinance Survey map prior
to that. It shows that the Ordinance Survey maps during this period were based
upon the Tithe maps. Considerable detail is on the
map with each parcel or field is numbered and then referenced in a large
book listing the owners and size of the land. We have
previously noted that the parish consists of two Tithings.
One listed as Arnewood and the second as the Hordle Tithing. They are split approximately in half.
In the past we have attempted to locate where Elizabeth Holley and
her father the weaver were from. The were listed as
from Arnewood. Now that we have determined that all
the northern tithing is listed as Arnewood, they could have been from any
village and not necessarily from the Manor of Arnewood or from Little Arnewood
as previously thought
Found the property on
Vaggs Lane and it is configured with three parcels. The
first next to the road looks to be about ˝ acre - Then a ditch down the middle
with two additional parcels of land shown just as the map in the Stay Family
history map.
The map documentation
lists parcels #724, 723, 722 and 722A, Thomas Thorn is listed as the owner
in 1844
Also the number of buildings
on the map clustered around the old Hordle Church would confirm that the possible
site of Peter’s birth would be in the immediate vicinity of the Old Church.
An interesting observation
about the number of buildings and cottages noted on the Tithe map. More than double those shown on later maps.
The buildings (houses,
barns, shops and outhouses) have been torn down or removed. There were several listings in the Hampshire Record Office
where large landowners were charged
with tearing down cottages on their land which ousted the occupants.
Visit with Gordon Brown
and Harry Stay to the site on Vaggs Lane:
The front portion of the
property listed in the 1702 lease is about ˝ acre and is overgrown with trees
bushes and weeds. A ditch runs down one side of the
parcel of land. We located an old wall about 18 inches
thick running about six feet.
Scattered around the wall
were a number of large red bricks. (About 12 inches long, 2 ˝ inches thick
and 3 inches wide) I took one of the bricks back to
Chris Uptons – they looked to be of recent origin. However,
Harry and I looked at a number of old 1700 vintage brick walls in the area
and found them to be of the same size and construction. We
located a pub in Brockenhurst built in 1704 and found exactly the same large
bricks with the same discoloration due to firing as that on the brick we
took. Also there were burnt pieces of wood interspersed
around the bricks buried in the soil. I dug down and
took a piece of burnt wood. (Wonder what it would
cost to have a carbon dating of this to see if it about 250 years old) We note in the Survey with Sway Quarr. 1798 “Richard Stay and then crossed out with the comment “dead”. Further across the page it says, “this cottage burnt down”.
(Note the spelling at this time listed his name as Stay not Stoy
as in the lease.)
Harry Stay showing bricks from cottage.
There was no longer an
indication of an orchard having been at the location, but it could have been
on the land to the rear where the football field has been developed. There is an orchard today across the street from the property
and also one house away. It would not seem likely that
an orchard would survive for 300 years.
Adjacent to the wall and
bricks we located a well flush with the ground level about 2 ˝ feet across
and it was lined with the same type of bricks. I would
assume that the well would not be deep due to the standing water in the ditch
about 25 feet from the well location. There is trash
and debris in the well and it may be interesting to see if it would be possible
to excavate the trash out of the well to see what of interest could be found.
Also I picked up a very old rusty piece of crude iron about one foot long
by 2 inches wide that was pointed on one end. Gordon thought it was a gate
hinge. Chris Upton has a hobby of using a metal detector
to find coins and indicates he may check out the site to see what may be found.
Gordon Brown (the man
who contacted us through the Internet and lives one farm away from the site)
indicated that the property is now owned by the county and is public land. The rear two parcels are now a part of a large football
and cricket field owned by the county. One can still
see the indentations where the ditch ran across the field.
Also they have put a drainage system in with a manhole cover to drain
the playing field.
It then would appear from
our survey of the property, that there was indeed a cottage that burnt down
in the past. Thus we in all probability have the actual
location where three generations of Stays lived. Richard
Stoy the older, Richard Stoy the Younger (from the lease) and his son Richard
Stay (note change in the spelling of the name. This
is significant!) who is listed in the BM56/282 document Survey with Sway
Quarr. 1778. Elizabeth Holley was listed on the Tithe map still living on
a parcel of land near Vaggs Lane. We still do not
know the actual circumstances about Elizabeth Holley noted in the lease with
Richard Stoy the younger and William Stoy his brother. We
have assumed that Elizabeth was betrothed to Richard. But
why was her name listed on the Rentral lists as Holley?
In all, the visit was
exciting to find the actual location where our forefathers lived some 300
years ago!
