The discovery of recusants by the name of Stay in the Brockenhurst Parish in the 1600s opens up the possibility of extending our family line to that period. The fact that Brockenhurst is just a few miles nearly due north of the Hordle Parish and that the Stay name in not recorded in the Milford/Hordle/Milton parishes prior to 1724 would lead us to believe that the family may have migrated to those parishes from another location.
Another the recent discovery of a 1702 lease between a Sir Robert Smyth III and Richard Stay son of Richard Stay husbandsman from Arnewood (Arnewood is the northern tithing of the Hordle Parish) may give us a trail of the family from the Brockenhurst parish.
This area is known as the New Forest with ancient forest families with Forest roots of that go back to pre-Roman times. We fourth generation Americans are unfamiliar with the history of England. To gain a historical perspective of the area during the 1600s and the conditions surrounding “recusants” of the time, it may be well to give a lesson in English history specifically as it pertains to the New Forest area.
A recent book by the author Edward Rutherfurd The Forest Crown Publishers, New York 2000 is a historical novel about the New Forest. Rutherfurd has written two previous books about Sarum and London. I have found his historical research and facts to be very well presented and generally correct. For that reason, to get a feeling of the times, I have extracted excerpts from the book that will help to provide a historical feel for the Stay family who lived in Brockenhurst. They were likely “Forest People” and listed as “recusants”. At this time we are not sure if the Brockenhurst recusant Stays were Catholic or Protestant dissenters. Hopefully, research into the area will clear up just who these Stays were and if the Hordle Stay family of the late 1700s stemmed from this area.
Historical Perspective (text from Rutherfurd and other sources)
Starting in the late 1500s King Henry VIII had “dissolved
the monasteries huge tracts of the county had changed hands. In the New Forest, in particular, the great
monastery of Beaulieu, the lands of Christchurch priory to the south-west, the
smaller house of Breamore in the Avon valley and the great abbey of
Romsey just above the Forest – these were all stolen, their buildings stripped
and left to fall into ruin.” P. 224
Note: the Manor in the Hordle Parish was known as the Breamore Hordle Manor, at this time we do not know the connection between Hordle and Breamore. It appears that it goes back to the early period when the Trenchard family ownership of the Hordle Manor and the Breamore estate.
Protestant reformers took charge and “Thus the English
Church was liberated from popery.”
Queen Elizabeth’s period “The Pope had not only excommunicated her but absolved all Catholics from Allegiance to the heretic queen, Elizabeth couldn’t tolerate that: the Roman Church was outlawed in her realm.” - - - And few places in southern England contained more loyal Catholics than the Winchester diocese, - - Many of the better sort, as the gentry and merchant class were called, quite openly maintained their Catholic faith.”
“The Isle of Wight and the inlets on the Southampton stretch of the southern coast were natural places to land Roman priests, and the loyal Catholic gentry, the recusants as they were already being called, were ready to give them shelter. These priests were strictly illegal now; no less than four had been discovered in the Winchester diocese recently and taken away for burning.” (p.226)
“Thomas Carew* had been the previous captain of Hurst Castle. His family, good Catholics all of them, still lived at the village of Hordle at the Forest’s edge, only a few miles away.” p. 245)
She (Lady Albion) “had visited,- - - that many of the peasants, perhaps most, were still faithful to the old religious ways, in this assessment she was perfectly correct .’ (1588 - p. 272)
Forest Rights: “if there was one thing that had changed scarcely at all in the New Forest since the days of the Conqueror it was the common rights of the forest folk. Given their smallholdings and the poverty of much of the soil, this continuity was natural: the exercise of common rights was still the only way in which the local economy could work.
There were chiefly four, by name, The right of Pasture – of turning out animals to graze in the king’s forest; of Turbary, an allowance of turves, cut for fuel; of Mast, the turning out of pigs in September to eat the green acorns; and Estovers - - the taking of underwood for fuel. These were the four; although there were also some customary rights to marl, for enriching your land, and of cutting bracken as bedding for livestock.
The system by which these ancient rights were allocated, like ancient common law, was often complex and they might attach to an individual cottage; but it had been the custom to consider them as belonging to each landowner, who would claim them on behalf of himself and his tenants.”(p.300)
*Note: in 1593-4 On August 33 1591, two thirds of the manor of Hordell Bremor (Hordle Breamore) with appurtenances and the Manor of Keyhaven, Hants and other lands in Hants., and Dorset on which day the same premises were taken and sized into the Queens hands from Henry Carye Esq., recusant (The grandson of Thomas Carew the first captain of Hurst Castle). Publications of the Catholic Record Society Vol. XLIII
King James I period 1603-1625). It was the first time as anybody knew,
that a complete list of all the common rights had ever been written down. (The
communing rights)
Sought - - “toleration for both religions in
England” (p.301)
King Charles I (1629 – 1649) Conducted a Forest Eyre 1635 “The forest Eyre went back to Plantagenet times. Every so often –years might pass between these visitations – the king’s special justices would go down to inspect the whole system, correct any maladministration, clear up any outstanding cases and, you could be sure, levy some handsome fines.” - - - “That summer of 1635 there had been no less than two hundred and sixty-eight prosecutions brought before the Forest court. The average had usually been about a dozen.” King Charles was favorable to his wife’s Catholic religion, conflict between the Royalists and Parliamentarians (Puritans) led to the civil war. He was executed January 1649.
“Charles had favored the Catholic powers.” - - - “Many of the Parliament men were
gentlemen of property. They wanted
order; they favored Protestantism, preferably without King Charle’s bishops;
but order, social and religious. - - -
These independents wanted complete freedom for each parish to choose its own
form of religion - - so long as it was Protestant, of course.” (p. 307)
King Charles I was held in Hurst Castle prior to his trial
in Westminster Hall in January 1649.
1648 Oliver Cromwell period (civil war) - The Commonwealth Regime 1649 - 1660 -
In 1649 after King Charles I was executed, “Cromwell The Protector”, was all-powerful, he and his family, joining the same Puritan group at worship as Colonel Penruddock.
The Commonwealth Regime “was tolerant in matters of religion. That tolerance, of course, did not extend
to the Roman Church.” - - - But within the broad range of protestant
congregations, stern Cromwell was surprisingly liberal. He had refused to allow the Presbyterians to
impose their forms upon everyone; independent churches, choosing their ministers
and their own forms of worship.”(p.325)
During the period of the Commonwealth Regime, many church records and legal documents were not kept. In particular, there are few wills available for this period.
Charles II period 1660 - 1685 - - “the acts of
Parliament followed and the new king could not stop them. Only the Anglican prayer book with its
formal services might be used in churches.
Protestant sects – Dissenters as they were called -- were banned from any church.” (p.330)
In his desire for religious freedom, so that the
Catholics might have their churches again, Charles II was entirely
sincere. For the time being. That he had also, that very summer, signed a
secret treaty with his cousin Louis XIV promising to adopt the Roman Catholic
faith and enforce it in England as soon as possible- - -“
“King Charle’s promise to Alice (Alice Lisle) at
Bolderwood, that he would give his subjects religious freedom, had finally come
to pass in 1672. But it hadn’t
lasted. Within a year, Parliament
had struck it down. Dissenters were
thrust back to the margin of society and forbidden all public office. The only effect of the brief freedom was to
cause all the dissenters to come out into the open so they’d be known in
future.” (p.349)
1685 King Charles II death, “There might be some in the country who still hankered for the old Catholic faith, but the century since the Armada had thinned their ranks greatly- -“ (p.354) King Charles died February 1685
Note: This is the period when the Stays were listed as “Recusants” in the parish of Brockenhurst, i.e. 1680 – 1682 - 1683. From this information the Stays could well have been Protestant recusants rather than Catholic recusants. Were the Stays members of the Monmouth’s Rebellion?
Before Charles II died on 6 February 1685 he was received into the Roman Catholic Church
King James II 1685-1688 (second son of Charles I,
Catholic king, converted to the Roman Church in 1668)
Monmouth’s Rebellion (Monmouth the Protestant) - King Charles II’s son . Over a thousand Protestants rebelled to bring Monmouth to the throne instead of King James II the Catholic. The rebellion took place in Dorset and Hampshire and included the New Forest area. Monmouth was captured near Ringwood. (Ringwood is just a few miles East of Brockenhurst) “In June 1685 -- - - Charles II’s eldest illegitimate son, the Duke of Monmouth, landed in the south-west of England. The rebel leaders had assumed that their countries would refuse to obey a Roman Catholic king but the invasions were defeated without undue difficulty.” Monmouth was executed in1686.
Bloody Jeffreys. In 1685 in Winchester “five judges- - - and - - - Jack Ketch the official and highly incompetent executioner, - - - and others arrived “to hang decapitate, burn, whip or transport to the colonies the more than twelve hundred men unlucky enough to be caught after marching with Monmouth.” - - - This included the “Right Honourable George, Lord Chief Justice Jeffreys.” - - - “after executing three hundred and thirty and sending eight hundred and fifty to the American plantations, it was known as Bloody Assize;”
Alice Lisle of the New Forest was tried and beheaded in Winchester’s old market place.
King James “was annoyed when a resolution was passed asking him to publish a proclamation to put in force the laws against “all dissenters whatsoever from the Church of England”. For James’s intention was precisely the opposite. He was determined to place both Roman Catholics and Protestant dissenters in a position of civic equality with his Anglican subjects.” (A Royal History of England - Fraser p. 72)
William (Prince of Orange, Netherlands, nephew of Charles II) a strict Calvinist and Mary brought up in the Church of England, but the daughter of the Roman Catholic Duke of York.
An “ Act of Indulgence permitted Christian nonconformists (but not Roman Catholics) to worship freely subject to specific conditions.” In 1701 “an Act of Settlement was passed which, among other things, not only provided for the Protestant succession, but required future monarchs specifically to be members of the Church of England- -’ ibid p. 86.
Queen Anne (Anne Hyde second daughter of James II by his
first wife) 1702 - 1714
Was a stout pillar of the Church of England . England was from that point forward affiliated with the Church of England. (Anglican)