We have spent some time in documenting Catholic activities in and around Brockenhurst, Boldre, Hordle, and Milford.We feel it important to examine this connection because if the Stay family were indeed Catholic in Brockenhurst and migrated over three generations to Hordle and Milford. The purpose of this document is to review Catholic families and their activities south of Brockenhurst.
By 1725, there were not many practicing Catholics in Brockenhurst and Boldre, an enumeration of the time listed only a scant few.However, this same list indicates a much larger listing in the parish of Milford.Two of the individuals with rather large holdings were listed.
From the Registers and Records of Winchester, Catholic History Society, the following:
Deanery of Fordingbridge (about 1724)
Boldre & Brockenhurst Only 2 or 3 papists
Lymington10 papists no estates
Christchurch4 Popish families
Breamore 5 Papists
HoldenhurstOne Popish family
Fordingbridge 3 Papists
SopleyThere are four popish families but of small estate
This list is suspect because the total is only 73 families, however if you equated four individuals per family the total Catholic population would be about 300 souls for the entire area.This list is based upon estimates from each of the parishes represented by the Anglican clergy at that time.
“Over much of Hampshire as of Surrey the organized Catholic cause collapsed with the total desertion of the propertied classes, leaving behind a sad and tiny unshepherded diaspora who could certainly be of little use to any attempt to overthrow the Protestant succession by force.” - - - The dissenting enterprise in Hampshire in this period was clearly on a much bigger scale than that of Roman Catholicism, but the returns are not very informative about it.” Circa 1725 (P. xxiv, and xxv, Parson and Parish, Introduction by W.R. Ward, Hampshire county council,Winchester 1995 - Hampshire Record Series Volume XIII)
Prior to this period (1724), the large Catholic landowners had their estates confiscated.In 1593-4 two thirds of the manor of Hordell Bremor (Hordle Breamore) and the Manor of Keyhaven was taken from Henry Carye Esq. recusant, and seized into the Queen’s hands. (See section about Henry Cary esq.)
Family Bible held by Chris Upton.We surmised that the notation in the family Bible indicates that the “family came from up north in Somerset”.At the time, we felt that anyplace up north was called Somerset, which could well have been Brockenhurst.We need to have Chris look again at the Bible and see if there is any reference at all to the beliefs of the first owners i.e. dissenters, Catholics, protestants, etc.
Catholics in Milford
From the census of Catholics for the area in 1724, (23 families) listed above, it appears that Brockenhurst had only a few Catholics, with Boldre having one or two families with Milford having a considerable number.This could account for a move from the Brockenhurst area to Arnewood and Hordle.They would likely gather to an area where support from others of their belief was available.
Much Catholic activity continued in the Milford, Hordle, Keyhaven area.Following are various items from the Catholic Record Society texts about the Registers of Sopley.(Selected quotes)
Note:In early times, a Catholic “Mission” that included parts of Southern Hampshire and a part of Dorset existed.It included Pennington, Christchurch, Lymington, Bournemouth, Lyndhurst, Brockenhurst, Boldre, New Milton and Ringwood.
p. 90 “In recent years a little more evidence has come to light showing the existence of Catholic families around Milford and Pennington, among whom the shadowy form of Father Paul Atkinson, O.F.M., seems to move.We find that three families all Catholics, succeeded each other at Everton.”(About 1 mile north of Hordle and Milford, Everton, otherwise Yelverton, Yeovilton, Evelton, Evilton)
p. 91About
the year 1725 the Lacys came to live in Efford Cotage, on the main road
between Everton and Lymington.Father
Paul Atkinson, O.F.M., a prisoner in Hurst Castle since 1699, use
to say Mass at Efford Cottage. - - - -Fr. Paul, a dark, tonsured man, once
said Mass on the steps of what is now the Churchyard Cross at Milford.”
p. 92 “After Mr. Lacy’s death [1749] they were
married at Milford Church by my father’s old friend, the Rev. Richard Warner,
and afterwards by Dr. Milner according to the Rites of the Catholic Church;
I suppose at Yelverton House, as there was a chapel in the house,
and Mr. Greenwood was the priest.
p. 92 “The Milford Record (I, No. 3, 1910) also
shows that there was a Catholic school at Milford.-
- -James Thorne, the Parish Clerk of Milford, deposed, among other things,
that there was a school in Milford carried on by a Roman Catholic to teach
children reading, writing and arithmetic.Thomas
Godwin of Milford, a gentleman, deposed that Milford already had two schools-
- -one kept by “one Lane, a notorious sort,” and the other by “W. Matthews,
a reputed Papist.”
p.92-93 “In his 1741 visitation Bishop Challoner
records that the congregation at Pennington and Avon numbered about two
hundred”, and higher up on the same page under the name of the priest,
“Frankland, gives one hundred and twenty communicants.”
In 1593-94, two thirds of the “Manor of Hordell Bremor” (Hordle Breamore) and the “Manor of Key Haven” was sequestrated for Recusancy from Henry Carye Esq. recusant, and seized into the Queen’s hands.Catholic Register Society publications: Vol. XLIII.
“There in fact, we find quite a number of farmers and laborers entered as recusants and owing huge sums to the Royal Exchequer.When next the veil is lifted on this corner of Hampshire we find an astonishingly large number of Catholics in the List of Convicted recusants of 1662/3.The List is very imperfect and contains the names of none of the Catholic gentry.Yet we find twenty-three convicted recusants in the “Hundred of Christchurch,” four in the “Town of Christchurch.” One in Ringwood and another eleven in the Liberty of Westover (C.R.S. VI, 314-5)
A footnote on page 88 speaks of Henry Cary.“*Henry
Cary, recusant, of Tadford, Hants, grandson of Thomas, the first
captain of Hurst Castle.This family
persisted in recusancy for a long while, Unfortunately the name appears
in various documents as “Carew,” “Cary,” “Carey,” and “Carce” (cf. C.R.S.,
Xiii, 121; v, 313; XXIV, 275).(See
section on Henry Carey)
Note: Tadford or Taddyford, is a farm about 400 yards East of the Old Parish Church at the original village of Hordle.
We note from the Family History Monthly March 2000, Hopwood “Tracing Catholic Ancestors A guide to Sources” the following items:
“Most Catholics had their children christened at a Church of England service and the parish register would generally record these events with no indication that the parents weren’t Anglicans.” - - - The majority of Catholics were married in an Anglican church, largely to secure their children’s’ rights of inheritance.However, many couples underwent a second wedding service, conducted by a traveling Roman Catholic priest. “ - - - “The dangers of performing an illegal marriage increased after Hardwicke’s Marriage Act was passed in 1753, stipulating that priests conducting ‘irregular’ marriage ceremonies should be transported for 14 years.” - - - The risks of keeping Catholic registers of births, marriages and deaths, meant that many records were destroyed or that these events were never written down at all.” - - - “While the 1837 Registration Act removed the necessity for Catholics to be buried, married and christened in Anglican churches, they still had to prove their wills in Church of England courts until 1858.” (Ibid)
We should note that there were other reasons during this period where families were deposed from their land and had to relocate. Thus, we may be over optimistic about the Stoys being Catholic which fostered the move South to Hordle parish.
The first was known as “emparking” where large landowners evicted or bought out small portions of land in order to expand their estates.They then tore down the cottages and made the entire area into a large estate park planting trees and landscaping the area to their desires.Whole villages were destroyed in the making of the New Forest as it is today.This is supported by the Tithe map that showed a great number of cottages and out buildings that were not shown on later maps.
Also the last large-scale pestilence was in 1665-66 in which large numbers of the population died because of the plague. We note in the Brockenhurst registers that there were considerably more deaths than births during our period of study.
The last reason for people leaving an area in the New Forest was what was known as “Sheep Clearances” Due to the wool industry, the large landowners evicted or bought out those who had tilled or farmed the land.Wool was a much better profit than the rent paid by small tenants.This started in 1488 and continued for two more centuries.Thus village plough land had been converted to pasture.This caused a large number of “vagrants” who passed from one place to another during this period.From this situation, peasant agriculture seems to have been extinguished.Another reference, “in due course, Fisher implemented his plans to get rid of his peasants, probably by buying out the freeholders and copyhold tenants and evicting the cottars in order to create a sheep run”(Notes from The Lost Villages of Britain,Richard Muir, Michael Joseph London April 1982)
Hordle Catholics
Again, we note that the Manor of Hordle was taken from the Carey family in 1593/94 .This family was noted to be Catholic for over three generations.The first captain of the Hurst Castle was from this family and may account for their holdings in Hordle and Keyhaven.
I have been trying to locate information about the Hordle Manor.I would assume that a large manor house did not exist but that the Hordle Manor Farm was the seat of the Manor.I do note that a Manor house also existed in the Keyhaven area belonging to the Carey Family.(We need to see if you can locate a history of Hordle Manor)
I have been trying to locate information about the Manor.I would assume that a large manor house did not exist but that the Hordle Manor Farm or the Taddyford Farm was the seat of the Manor
Two notations from the Exchequer Rolls of the courts apply to the Manor of Hordel. Note:Adjoining the Old Hordle Church yard today is a dairy with a large house which is listed on a sign as “The Hordle Manor Farm” this appears to be our Hordle Manor Farm of old.
“ Persistent recusancy was expensive and after
1586, those who couldn’t afford the fines risked having two-thirds of their
land and all their movable property seized by the Crown.”
p. 38 Roll 2. MICH. 35-36 ELIZ. (1593-4)
[Lease of sized land. Rental]
[19]farm.John
Goyte, William Bake and John Thomas [lessees]. C: £ll-16-11¾.
D: Two-thirds of the manor of Hordell Bremor [Hordle Breamore], Hants.
With appurtenances and of the manor of Keyhaven, Hants.; also of the manor
of Southam [Southam] alias Hamworthie [Hamworthy], Co. Dorset. B: Henry
Carye of Tadford,Hants, esq., recusant.
H (a) Aforesaid John Goyte, William Bake & John Thomas, their executors
and assigns. H(b) : From 15 Dec., 34 Eliz. [1591]. - - - On 17 April, 36
Eliz. [1594] £5-18-6 was paid from this farm into the Treasury.”
Also another entry next page:
[Arrearage of rent]
[22] A : Tenants.B: Henry Carye,esq.,recusant.D; Two thirds of the manor of Hordell Bremor, and other lands in Hants., and Dorset. F : £5-18-6 of a certain rent of £11-16-11 viz. a part of the said rent, from 6 August, 33 Eliz. [1591] (on which day the same premises were taken and sized into the Queen’s hands) until Michaelmas (19th September), next following; cf. preceding [Recusant] Roll, under “southt’”
Another entry
Cary, Henry esq., of Tadfore [Tadford, near Milford], Hants 10 mths recusance from 1 Apr. 1589: conv. 17 Aug. 1590.Rental of lands in Hants and Dorset seized 6 Aug. 1591- XI (61)
The following lengthy footnote refers to the Carey family holdings and the amounts of the fines for their property.
(Bottom page 34
Vol 71, Catholic Record Society puglication)
32.
The proximity of the south coast made Tadford a dangerous site for recusant
users.The three manors constituting
it, were carefully watched, especially at the time of the Armada.Henry
Cary’s lands are referred to under ‘Hants’ in the M.R., L.T.R., 33 Eliz,
Hilary Term, E368/465, mem. 63., which begins with Hordle Bremor, its capital
messuage and appurtenances, some 3 miles north of the coast; next comes
Keyhaven Manor at the S. E. corner of the site,on
the costal road to Southam alias Hamworthy near Poole Harbour, Dorset the
third manor.The commissioners at
Fordingbridge on 6 Aug 1591, valued Hordle Breamore at £5-10-0. (two-thirds
at £3-3-4). Keyhaven Manor, including Milford-on-Sea, Tadford and
Christchurch-Twinham, they valued at £6-2-0. (two-thirds at £4-1-4;
and the Manor of Hamworthy, Dorset at £6-3-5 ¾(two-thirds
at £4-2-3.The total value
of the Carye property amounted to £17-15-5 ¼(two-thirds
of which, claimed by the Crown, yielded £11-16-11 ¾ .) The
three leases responsible for delivering to the Crown the rental sum of
£11-17-0, in two payments of £5-18-6, were John Goyte, William
Bake and John Thomas.Beginning on
15 Dec. 1591, they fulfilled this duty regularly for nine years, ending
10 Nov. 1599.They never functioned
together again; although Goyte made several attempts to do so with other
associates.The fullest statement
of their financial proceedings will be found in CRS XVIII, pp. 285, 186
and CRS LVII. P. 38 (19).(Vol 71
Recusants 1581-1592 Catholic Record Society)
Thus we find that the Carye family lost considerable income from their holdings in Keyhaven, Hordle and Hamworthie (Southam) because of their beliefs in 1591.We assume that the holdings went into the Queens hands and that the Carye family lost their ownership.
From these records, considerable activity took place by Catholics living in and around Milford/Hordle.One premise is that the Stays may well have left Brockenhurst and settled to the south in Arnewood and Hordle.We feel confident that the Richard Stoy listed in the Brockenhurst register is Richard Stoy the elder listed on the Vaggs Lane Lease in the Hordle Parish.A review of the parish registers of Brockenhurst and Milford support this premise; the Stoy families are not listed after 1688 in Brockenhurst and suddenly appear in the Milford and Hordle registers in 1738 under the name of Stay.Why the family was not listed prior to that time could be that they were indeed Catholics and not recorded in the parish records, or more than likely they had at that time arrived in the Hordle Parish from Brockenhurst.